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Re: 1964 Civil Defense Matching Funds Siren List "The List"

Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:20 am

I'm not sure what kind of siren this is......if you look on the roof of the building next to the smokestack you'll see it sitting there. Unfortunately it's now gone to the scrap heap, that building was taken down two years ago and the siren went with it.

http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=r4x2fv ... orm=LMLTCC

But this is from Manchester, NH which lists a few different siren types.
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Re: 1964 Civil Defense Matching Funds Siren List "The List"

Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:45 am

Looks like a HOR super sirex.

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Re: 1964 Civil Defense Matching Funds Siren List "The List"

Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:26 pm

holler wrote:Looks like a HOR super sirex.
Judging by the Google image search I did, that looks about right from what I remember from going by that building all the time. Even some of the mounts looks correct.
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Re: 1964 Civil Defense Matching Funds Siren List "The List"

Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:42 pm

A few in CT really got my attention. According to the list Hartford had 21 SD-10s, yet all I've ever seen are Thunderbolts and a very beat up 2. Either someone goofed, they were removed/replaced or someone grossly underestimated siren db levels.

Wethersfield apparently had 2 SD-10s as well which either were removed years ago or maybe they confused Wethersfield with Rocky Hill with has 2 5Ts, one close to the Wethersfield line.

Manchester, one town over from me, apparently had a 5 at one time, where I have no clue. Only thing I've found in Manchester is a set of 3 inactive Leslie tyfon A200 horns (2 short bell, one long bell), and a Diaphone that was removed 14 years ago. It must have been removed a long time ago. EDIT: This could be our 7 which is close to the Manchester line

Portland, my home town had a "625": my guess it was a Diaphone as my family has mentioned a horn at Engine Co 1 used for fire calls until the mid 70's when they got their old 5 (removed in 1993).

Deep River had a 2T22: I'm almost certain they mixed them up with Chester which does have an old but very healthy one (with the squat GE motor) used as a fire siren. It also mentioned East Haddam as having a 2T22, but I think that might have been a Sterling M at the Haddam Neck VFD which was replaced by a WS 2016 sometime in the 1980's.

Tolland, also one town over from me had a 2T22........again where I have no clue. I know Stafford next town over has an SD-10 which is on the list as well so maybe they listed it in error. EDIT: This may have been our old 3T22 now that I think about it.

New Haven had a possible Hurricane, I may have to do some digging to see how true this was.

Very interesting list none the less
Last edited by 3t22 on Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:44 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 1964 Civil Defense Matching Funds Siren List "The List"

Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:51 pm

Now, that I think about it, the Marin Co. CA 625 could have been an air horn, since there is one still active in that area.

Also, Jumbo Allertors could be under the 618 category.

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Re: 1964 Civil Defense Matching Funds Siren List "The List"

Thu Jun 26, 2014 1:16 am

...Interesting Topeka,Ks. information. In Bonar Meninger's book "And Hell Followed With It" the book states that Topeka had 19 sirens in 1966 and most of them were Thunderbolts....according to the 1964 information sheet ,Topeka only had 13 sirens....I am guessing that the other 6? where in the county...shows only 1 Thunderbolt with in the city limits which I question.
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Re: 1964 Civil Defense Matching Funds Siren List "The List"

Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:33 pm

This is going to sound stupid, but I doubt any ACA would be on this list. I think ACA didn't come along until 1967 or 1968 when B&N renamed themselves. Maybe Mobil Directos? (just my 2¢) This is tieing (sorry if I misspelled that, not the best speller in the world) in with my words on Atlanta earlier, but around 1964, there were at least 6+ MDs in the city.
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Re: 1964 Civil Defense Matching Funds Siren List "The List"

Fri Jun 27, 2014 6:19 am

Actually, looking at it, the various siren codes don't appear to be for any particular model or supplier, but instead indicate a *class* of sirens, based on output levels, as shown on the first page--Code 611 would be any siren under 100dB at 100 feet, 612 would be any from 100 to 104, 613 would be 105-109, and so on up to Code 619 being for 135dB and above (i.e., P-50s and Chryslers). My guess is that Code 625 would be a catchall for various "nonstandard" warning devices like horns and coded sirens, while electronic sirens aren't even coded, with only two locations using them (the "voice sound" installation in San Mateo, CA, and the Altec-Lansing "voice sound" system in Salina, KS).

This makes a certain degree of sense; the cover indicates that this was intended to provide "warning coverage" information, and the various siren codes show 70, 80, and 90dB radii and areas for both 10dB and 12dB attenuation environments, implying it's meant more as a planning document of some sort. I also wouldn't be surprised if it turned out that, rather than FEMA's matching funds procedure, OCD made things simpler in those days before widespread accounting computers by just finding out what an average cost would be for sirens in each code class, and using that to set a single standard matching grant for each siren in a given code. It would DEFINITELY be simpler to do with 1964 accounting technology, and much quicker, too, given the volume of grants they'd given out under the program.

Of course, this doesn't explain why Battle Creek, MI, is listed as having gotten four 615s and two 617s. The 617s are simple; 1000Ts fit firmly into that code, and Battle Creek has three of them (all 4/5-port models at that!); it's entirely possible that only two had been bought as of 1964, or that only two of them were bought with matching funds. The big question is why there are four 615s listed; up until the 80s, the rest of the City's system consisted of SD10s, which *should,* on volume, be classified as 614s. Either that, or there was a period when FS lied up on the SD10's output (from 109dB, it wouldn't take much).

(And for the interested, the 1980s saw the temporary addition of the old Battle Creek Township sirens after the annexation; those being mainly fire sirens for the township FD, they were soon retired. A couple of EOWS-612s went in in the mid-80s down in the part of the former Township that was outside the coverage radius of the old City system, and an RSH-10 apparently replaced one of the SD10s at some point before ATI started selling the HPSS16R that's been the city's standard for new installations and failed-siren replacements since. There was also a 1000 or 1000T at the Air National Guard base, since replaced by a pair of Modulator 4016s located about half a mile apart on the base, but that was never part of the City system, was owned by the Michigan ANG, and, as such, didn't qualify for matching funds from the OCD.)

Edit: Also, when I saw "Federal Tri-Tone" listed there, I found myself picturing a three-rotor job--perhaps a 4/5/6-port Thunderbolt or an XT36? (I think that's right--XT22 comes from it being 10/12-port, right?) Somehow, I have my doubts as to whether that's what they meant... :lol:

Edit 2: There's also some real head-scratchers on there. Like, for example, Beaver Falls, PA. Population 16,240, listed as having gotten matching funds for *nineteen* Code 619 sirens. What the heck did they need that much sound power for--did they think they could use the massed sirens to shoot down incoming Soviet bombers? Pittsburgh's ten 619s might be overkill given population, but considering how much heavy industry there was in that city at the time, you might need them to overcome high ambient noise levels, but I can't see how Beaver Falls could use that excuse, either. Smells fishy, like someone had his fingers in the till. :think: Similar for South Saint Paul, MN, getting seven 617s and two 619s along with a 613 and a 615, all for a population of 22,032. Or Bell, CA, with thirteen 619s for a population of 19,450.

I also find it amusing that New York City, the place that Chrysler originally designed its first siren for, elected not to get any 619s, but instead seemingly just deployed 613s at every fire station in the City.

I'm also amused just how many small municipalities in the heart of Tornado Alley were buying sirens like crazy under this program. It makes me think they were already lobbying OCD by 1960 to let them use them for severe weather warnings, too.

Beyond that, I suspect there are few, if any, STHes, STLs, or other single-tone sirens here; wasn't one of OCD's requirements for matching funds that they buy dual-tone sirens, so that they wouldn't be mistaken for the then-common single-tone fire sirens?

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Re: 1964 Civil Defense Matching Funds Siren List "The List"

Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:09 pm

Can anyone guess what 611 is? All it says is that is is less than 100 dB. I was thinking of a Model A, but rdfox has a good point. It is also interesting to note that Schenectady had to buy their own Thunderbolt, as it had to have been purchased in the 50's from the Jailbar grille. Interesting, 10 SD-10s in the city, and I can only find two.

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Re: 1964 Civil Defense Matching Funds Siren List "The List"

Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:44 pm

Hacksaw wrote:Also, Jumbo Allertors could be under the 618 category.
I thought we had already proven that the Jumbo Allertor was just a myth.

Labeled as a "Jumbo Allertor" on the siren archive, when it's just a P-15 with an allertor shroud. ID tag says P15 instead of 125 also.

Image

With that being said, sorry for the derailment folks, back on topic.

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