Washington D.C., and another question,

[quiksmith10]

As far as I can remember, the only place around DC that had Allertors was NOVA (Northern Virginia), which included Loudon County and Arlington, VA. I don't know anything about DC's old Cold War siren system but I do know that surrounding counties, specifically Montgomery County in Maryland has a systems of Thunderbolts. My dad grew up in Germantown in the neighborhood surrounding Fox Chapel Elementary School. According to him, he remembers seeing and hearing what he described to be a Thunderbolt located on the school grounds. I believe this was in the 1970's time frame.

BTW, nice job Ben on remembering most of the sirens in the suburbs of DC and welcome back to the new board. I had contacted you a couple years back about the local sirens. I remember you telling me you used to be a volunteer at the fire company in Waynesboro, PA. Anyway, most of the sirens in Frederick County, Maryland are located at the volunteer fire departments. These sirens are mostly 3t22's with the occasional STH-10 or Model 5. This would include the 3t22 at Vigilant Hose in Emmitsburg. However, last time I checked, the Model 5 in Thurmont was taken down. I haven't been back past the ambulance company in a few months so I don't know if it was put back into service.

As you mentioned, Emmitsburg now has a system of four Whelen 2805's. I believe the installation of this system of this system was purely for the security incase of something happening in relation to the close proximity of Camp David, Site R, and the National Fire Academy (FEMA).

When you mentioned Hagerstown's old system, I remembered a photo that somebody took of one of the old Thunderbolts of the Hagerstown system on the old Geocaching site. However, this siren doesn't appear to be on of the three you mention. I appears to be on top of an appartment building. Here is the link:

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx ... ID=9039762

BTW, Site R (Raven Rock Mountain) is still highly active with daily helicopter flights in and out along with beefed up security. They just recently redid the perimeter fence, adding a few coils of razor wire along the fence, a definite change from the old barbed wire they used to have. Also, a couple years ago, they finished laying a fiber optic cable running all the way down the length of Route 140/Route 16. This cable ran from the Baltimore area, coming in somewhere around Westminster, finally veering from the road, ending inside the perimeter of Site R. Another similar line was run down the length of Jacks Mountain Road, coming from the north.

[Bshinn]

Brandon,
Cool! The siren in the photo from the link you posted was the one on the roof at city hall. You can see part of the white cupola to the right.

I used to live in Quincy (suburb of Waynesboro) and began my volunteer fire service career at Mont Alto VFD (Which had a model 5T and a second siren years ago which may have been a Sterling M10), after I had moved to the Fayetteville area (Fayetteville VFD has an STL10 which has been dead for years).

I never volunteered in Waynesboro, however they have air horns on a tower at their Potomac St. station and there used to be (2) FS Model 2's....one at the municipal park, and the second in the valley between the senior high school, K-mart, and the former East Junior High school site. The latter of the 2 was removed sometime after 1999.
I have been told about a 3rd that used to be on the west end of town (never found it, though).

The Blue Ridge Summit Fire station used to have an STH10 up on the roof, and the motor burned up several times (single phase unit).

Fort Ritchie had a 1003 Thunderbolt located across from the new Fire House.

I haven't lived within 2 hours of the area since 2003, so all kinds of stuff
(like the changes in Thurmont) has probably happened since.
I came to the midwest in 2005. I guess that puts me even further out of the loop, LOL.

I was vague about Site R(couple of my friends are Firefighters there), Camp David, and the Boonsboro Missile site for other reasons, but you're so close, you probably can't help but be in the know.

For the rest of the folks on the board, please be careful and don't go anywhere near the gates of site R unless you're prepared to be detained for several hours and interrogated (that's putting it lightly).

Ever see the sterling M10 or the model 5's in Gettysburg?

Hope to talk to you soon,
Ben S.

[quiksmith10]

Ben, thanks for the information on the Franklin County sirens. I never knew about the 1003 on Fort Richie. As far as the M-10 goes, I haven't seen it. I have seen Gettysburg's Model 5 on the southside of the town and their STH-10 right in downtown.

I'll also add that Site R is treated like the White House. Don't even plan to go up to the gates or snooping around there.

Another siren system I forgot to mention would be the one on Fort Detrick in Frederick, MD. Within the last couple of years they had a system of Federal Modulators put into service. I believe they are only 3 or 4 celled. Also, Baltimore, MD still has up their old Cold War system, consisting of Thunderbolts, Model 5's, and 2t22s. Their might be a few other models hidden in the city. I know there was talk a few years ago about the city replacing all of their olds sirens with system from Whelen. I'm not sure if anything came about from that. Whenever I have been in Baltimore since, I haven't spotted any Whelens.

[Matt Hackler]

Hey guys I found this news release on Baltimore's Fire Department website. It's dated from 2002, so I don't know if the sirens are there or not. The way it reads I think they've been installed.

http://www.baltimorecity.gov/government ... 21016.html

Maybe we should e-mail the Baltimore Fire Department, or the Office of Emergency Management.

[Trey]

It sounds like a system of Whelen WPS-2804s. The only systems I've heard of actually speaking is the Whelens, or at least stating that this is a test. I'm sure Modulators can do it but I just think this is a Whelen. 118dB@100ft, would fit the perfect description of a WPS-2804, because they didn't have the Omnilert series then.

[AllSafe]

Yes, it's a Federal Lion. It's a dual-headed single tone siren from the 1930s-1940s and it was almost exclusively used as a fire siren. Not sure of motor horsepower.

[Jim_Ferer]

As I understand it, Washington's Thunderbolt system was replaced by Allertors about ten years before it was completely removed.

Not replaced by Allertors, but once Thunderbolts were no longer available all new siren acquisitions were Allertors until the system was dismantled entirely.

I grew up in the Washington area in the '50s and '60s. There was a very large (over 450 unit) siren system, all Thunderbolts. Most of the time they were maintained by Central Armature Works, a big apparatus installation and electrical contractor in Northeast DC.

The test schedule was changed several times while I lived there. At different times the tests were once a month at 11:00 am on a Saturday, and at others the tests were only once every three months. Sometimes the tests were for only a minute or minute-and-a-half in Alert, and other times the tests were in Alert and Attack. Several times there were "surprise" tests, which had been announced to occur within a certain time frame but not the exact time.

On top of that, there were at least three or four times the system went off by itself, once in the middle of the night.

I was in the rescue service for a while before I left. In the fire alarm headquarters there was a control for the system, which was a telephone-dial style control under a hinged glass cover, with "Test," "Alert," and "Attack" and "Stop" under different finger-holes. You had to dial the dial twice to start the sirens, but only dial "Stop" once to stop them. Later on radio antennas appeared on the poles or clamped to the air tubes of the sirens.

We heard the CD control was in Shady Grove, Md. (upper Montgomery County) but I am not sure. I do know that all fire dispatches had a set of controls. There was an open loop telephone hook-up which was tested every day.

I moved back to the area not long before the end, and by then up to a third of the sirens were not operational. That was when I started to see Allertors. The Thunderbolts weren't pulled out, but Allertors went in when necessary, apparently. There was never a wholesale replacement.

I left the area again in 1988, and by the time I visited again the whole system was gone. As far as I could tell none of the sirens were left to rot; they were all pulled out as far as I can tell. At least none of the places where I knew sirens used to be still had one. Does anybody know when the system was pulled out?

The DC system was completely a Cold War system. It was never about weather or anything else.

[sp4nk]

"Does anybody know when the system was pulled out?"

Must've been early 1993 or thereabouts; that's when all of the Thunderbolts at the elementary schools in Montgomery County vanished.

During recent trips to Baltimore, I've seen a few old civil defense sirens here and there, including a few Model 5's and a 2t22. My cousin, who goes to school at Peabody Conservatory, tells me he can still hear the sirens being tested every Monday at noon. Some of the sirens have been removed; for instance, the Thunderbolt featured on this page no longer exists...
http://www.btco.net/ghosts/oddsends/wha ... izzit.html

I haven't seen any electronic sirens, so my guess is that the new siren system the city was planning to implement hasn't been installed yet.

[Bshinn]

Good afternoon...

I have learned that the 3t22 in Thurmont, MD. was removed in 2005 (Link posted below).

A wealth about cold war communications (Radar, AT&T Microwave towers, ETC.) can be found at the following address:
http://coldwar-c4i.net/

From the location http://coldwar-c4i.net/WAWAS/index.html
Here is a list of CD sirens installed in the National Capital Region during the cold war:
Washington D.C.-(45) sirens
Montgomery Co., MD.-(60) sirens
Prince George's Co., MD.-(77) sirens
Fairfax County, VA.,-(66) sirens
City of Falls Church, VA.-(2) sirens
Arlington Co., VA.-(27) sirens
Alexandria, VA.-(12) sirens

The two primary activation points (hardened/secure locations) were Mount Weather, VA.(approx. 50 mi. west of DC), and Olney, MD (Montgomery Co).

At one point, Damascus VFD (Montgomery County) had TWO Thunderbolts
(one of which was a 1003)

There's been discussion about Baltimore City, but I haven't heard many questions about Baltimore county's system...well here you go. I have some family in that area, and spent part of my childhood travelling there to visit them. Balto. Co. used to have numerous STH 10's placed in various locations around the county.
Among the STH 10's was the one at Reisterstown Volunteer Fire Co.
A photo of the station/apparatus/sirens together can be seen at:
http://www.rvfc.org/

Discussion and photos about former Montgomery County CD sirens can be found here:
http://www.thewatchdesk.com/forum/showt ... hunderbolt

SIREN ACTIVATION
Also, on the following page, check out Timothy's posting about the "EOC" (Emergency Operations Center).
http://www.thewatchdesk.com/forum/showt ... ouse+siren




PHOTOS:
Links to photos of the Thunderbolt 1003 installed beside Wheaton Volunteer Rescue Squad in Montgomery County:
http://www.wvrs.org/gallery/1970s/wvrs0158
http://www.wvrs.org/gallery/1970s/crop0012

Gallery of removal photos: 3t22 in Thurmont, MD. (Frederick County)
http://thurmontfirst.com/albums/ghcalbu ... index.html

Model 5 that was left on the same site in Thurmont
http://thurmontfirst.com/albums/ghcalbu ... _3518.html

Model 5 and 3t22 in same photo:
http://thurmontfirst.com/albums/ghcalbu ... _1113.html

DISCLAIMER: I have tried to site works where appropriate, and I cannot take credit for ANY of these photos.

This felt like putting together a term paper. I hope you enjoy it. I think I need a nap.

If you've never seen it, or would like a refresher, someone has posted clips of "The Day After" on Youtube. (a chilling reminder of the effects of nuclear war and why it is bad)

P.S.
I can't believe I grew up in the middle of all this (and Site R, which is mentioned/detailed on the cold war page).
At least if anything bad would've gone down, my death would have been quick (I don't know about painless).

Ben S.

[CJ]

When I saw it, it reminded me of the picture of a Carters siren with St. Paul's Cathedral in the background.

Slightly OT but do you have the link to that?