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SICentral
 
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ATI's Modulator Clone

Sun Aug 21, 2022 6:01 pm

ATI just unveiled their "goofy ahh" (as the fellow kids say nowadays...) Modulator/I-Force clone, the "Multiple Stacked Circular Speaker Array". There's nothing Federal Signal or ASC can do to my knowledge. The patents for the original Modulator/Quadren have expired.

https://www.globenewswire.com/news-rele ... rrays.html
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(Apologies for the large images.)
Let's see what happens this time around!
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CD_Siren
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Re: ATI's Modulator Clone

Sun Aug 21, 2022 6:17 pm

Didn't expect ATI to return to a project they almost got sued for.

For context, back in late 2016, ATI had plans to make the "OHPSS-32," a clone of the Modulator.
Here's a thread about the drama: https://www.airraidsirens.net/forums/vi ... +modulator

Is it just me or are these the same 3D render photos they used for the original project they almost got sued for?
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Re: ATI's Modulator Clone

Sun Aug 21, 2022 7:09 pm

And chances are, these will run on the same garbage controllers with only 1-2 amps as the HPSS series does, meaning these'll still be unreliable hunks of crap. I feel bad for any city that gets suckered into investing in these.
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Re: ATI's Modulator Clone

Sun Aug 21, 2022 8:13 pm

Wasn’t Federal and ASC notified about this when they did it the first time? If so, I’d like to see what they said.
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CD_Siren
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Re: ATI's Modulator Clone

Sun Aug 21, 2022 8:59 pm

Kasey wrote:
Sun Aug 21, 2022 8:13 pm
Wasn’t Federal and ASC notified about this when they did it the first time? If so, I’d like to see what they said.
Federal Signal was contacted by a board member when the ATI Modulator drama happened in 2016. (Unsure if the response is still around, it was posted on Facebook but since I'm not logged in, I can't see it)
I forgot whether ASC was notified by a member or found out themselves when ATI tried to undercover purchase an I-Force.
I still post here, but not as much as I used to. :roll:
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Re: ATI's Modulator Clone

Sun Aug 21, 2022 10:08 pm

CD_Siren wrote:
Sun Aug 21, 2022 8:59 pm
Kasey wrote:
Sun Aug 21, 2022 8:13 pm
Wasn’t Federal and ASC notified about this when they did it the first time? If so, I’d like to see what they said.
Federal Signal was contacted by a board member when the ATI Modulator drama happened in 2016. (Unsure if the response is still around, it was posted on Facebook but since I'm not logged in, I can't see it)
I forgot whether ASC was notified by a member or found out themselves when ATI tried to undercover purchase an I-Force.
Alright. Thank you!
I have a thing for objects that light up or make noise.

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Re: ATI's Modulator Clone

Sun Aug 21, 2022 10:26 pm

CD_Siren wrote:
Sun Aug 21, 2022 8:59 pm
Kasey wrote:
Sun Aug 21, 2022 8:13 pm
Wasn’t Federal and ASC notified about this when they did it the first time? If so, I’d like to see what they said.
Federal Signal was contacted by a board member when the ATI Modulator drama happened in 2016. (Unsure if the response is still around, it was posted on Facebook but since I'm not logged in, I can't see it)
I forgot whether ASC was notified by a member or found out themselves when ATI tried to undercover purchase an I-Force.
ASC was notified by the seller himself when he realized ATI was trying to buy the I-Force to reverse engineer (aka blatantly copy) and they confiscated the siren when ATI failed to pay. They've still got that I-Force at their HQ today.
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Re: ATI's Modulator Clone

Mon Aug 22, 2022 12:55 am

Either way, I imagine this'll be pretty interesting to watch go down. Whether Federal takes action or not.

I must admit I find it funny ATI is ballsy enough to make such a blatant copy.
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Re: ATI's Modulator Clone

Mon Aug 22, 2022 7:14 pm

Since FS and ASC let their patents lapse and didn't reapply when they updated the design of the Modulator and I-Force respectively those patents became public domain. I'm not an expert on law but I think they had the opportunity to do it when they transitioned to the newer designs, ASC especially since the second generation of the I-Force was a pretty big departure from the first generation/Quadren given that the former design was all fiberglass and the newer one has a metal core for support. Both companies' hands are probably tied at this point as far as legal action goes unless they have the ability to go after them on IP infringement. Even if they could ATI's design is enough of a departure from FS's and ASC's designs that it's not a direct copy and if anything is kind of an innovation over both since the 3200 watt version of the siren looks like it's going to be physically smaller than both. I don't think Federal Signal actually threatened them with a lawsuit, they just called them out on social media.

This was a pretty slick move on ATI's part. It almost makes me wonder if ATI pulled this move with Whelen and ASC in the mid-2000s regarding their black HPSS horns and their RHPSS series. The original RHPSS16 was almost like a hybrid between the Alertronic and WPS-3000 since, from what I can tell, those probably used standard 100 watt drivers connected together with the four-way adapter from the DKTec horns to feed into each throat of the siren. 16 100 watt drivers take up more space than 4 400 watt ones, so that would probably explain why the head needed to have four throats was about the same size as a 3000 or AL-6000R. It's obvious that they got the idea of using an oscillator from Whelen, and the use of multiple drivers being coupled to the throat of the horns is how ACA built the 5000, 6000R, and AR-1600. I think they switched to their 400 watt drivers in 2007, and that was when the more compact version of the RHPSS16 was released along with the actual RHPSS32 with four throats. That was also when their black HPSS horns for their omnidirectional and multidirectional sirens started to pop up. Those horns function the same as a Hornet with the driver installed in the front of the horn firing back to its rear and reflecting the sound out. With the "bottom lip" of those horns and the mounting brackets that it uses to be mounted to the pole mount It looks like they may have intended to also use it for a rotating siren but decided to back off of the idea because of a lack of demand since Whelen themselves don't sell very many of them to begin with. Keeping all of that in mind their 400 watt driver looks similar to Whelen's design. When you look at the patents in this case Whelen, much like ASC and FS, apparently didn't update the one for the 3000 and used it for the base of the WPS-4000 and subsequent 4000/400/Vortex series. It expired in 2001, and from what I can tell it doesn't look like they ever put out a patent for the Hornet's horn design. The patent for the Alertronic expired in 2009, but by the time ATI started to make their rotating sirens ASC had dropped the RE-1600 from production as it was effectively replaced with the I-Force and T-128. Maybe I overlooked it since Whelen and Community Sound have so many patents out there, but it appears that the one for the 400 watt driver was wrapped into the patent on the WPS-2700 series. That one just so happened to expire in 2007.

IMHO the OHPSS will be an improvement over what they have now even though as some have stated these most likely will run on the same controller. I kinda wish they would revert back to the designs with the 400 watt drivers for the HPSS series and bring back the RHPSS series. They will probably keep the HPSS series around since it's their standard siren model, but I wouldn't mind them bringing back those older models. If they improved the controller design they'd be pretty good sirens.
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Re: ATI's Modulator Clone

Mon Aug 22, 2022 9:26 pm

ati is kinda stupid. they will never sell hardly any of them. mods plug into the cities existing systems (federal) , and i hate to say it, but there are a lot more fedrals than atis... unless, they litteraly give them away. i still wouldnt take one... nice idea, but do something new, maybe like one of those round alertronics...
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