The Siren Board

Discussion of Outdoor Warning Systems
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2021 4:26 am 
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kb8vul wrote: *

And I am sort of curious as to what you are basing your comments on.
Before he retired My grandpa worked for Mobilcomm, the guys who work on Motorola police radios and Clermont county's sirens. So he knows all about weather radios, EMS radios and a fair amount about storm sirens.

I know sirens can get hacked and have false alarms (Clermont county had several problems with that on the new DTMF system so they installed a switch between controller and transmitter to stop accidental activation).

The most important thing he taught me is that systems are supposed to work together, its like how your car has airbags and seat belts. In Hamilton county the EMA has an app (You bet I have it) and 190 sirens (as well as other sirens not officially on the system that sound for heavy weather such as the ASC T112 at Kenwood country club.) They work well together, sirens go off in alert, telling me to check my phone, and the phone elaborates on the emergency.

Speaking of, isn't the whole purpose of the alert signal to check for a civil defense alert?

Getting back to the power plant, Based off of what happened with the Zimmer plant's 1212 prototypes, there's more than likely some bonafide buyers eyeing the sirens, given they're low hour newer models, rather than a 60 year old thunderbolt. I know a few enthusiasts who would hide a body for a siren.

Yes people will complain they always do, I finally got my counterbalance forklift certification after asking about it since June. But listen to complaints from people who know what they're talking about. Some people complain that they have to wear a mask after all and I sure do like ignoring them.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:58 am 
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I think something that should be mentioned here is the likelihood of a plant emergency. While I do lean to having sirens as an additional layer of mass notification they can be excessive in the nuclear system, mainly due to the fact that the chances of a plant emergency are slim with the way they are built. Many people fear the invisible Boogie Man of radiation and have this view of a nuclear plant possibly going boom like the Little Boy. It's scary when you don't know how these plants operate, so the reaction most people would have, especially here where we are very much into the siren hobby, would be scoffed at understandably so. Physically that's not possible given that the plants run on uranium with low enrichment and the lack of the existing conditions to make the material go supercritical. Long story short, it ain't going to happen that way. You're also normally not going to expose the radioactive metals to the environment anyway unless you have a big natural disaster akin to what we saw with Fukushima when the plant was hit by an earthquake and then a tsunami that screwed up the emergency systems. The biggest factor contributing to what happened with Chernobyl was human error; the system also lacked some of the safeguards modern systems have, so that played a role as well. All of the stuff in the documentaries and movies about the plant possibly blowing up if the fission material hit the water and "raising Kyiv" is garbage that the Soviets probably came up with to look heroic in the face of what had happened. I don't mean that in a political way, the physics just weren't there for that to happen. :roll:

US plants are regulated heavily to avoid disasters like that between the various control, monitoring, containment, and failsafe measures that are required when they are constructed or maintained. After Three Mile Island there were changes made to regulations to keep a tighter grip on the way maintenance was done to plants in the country. Interestingly enough some countries that have nuke plants have smaller EPZs and siren systems despite the plants being regulated similarly to the ones in the US. Not only this, but Plant Hatch here in Georga actually didn't have a siren system until recently. If I recall correctly they issued everybody living in the EPZ a weather radio that would pick up any emergency issues broadcasted about the plant over the EAS system. On the flip side, the risks associated with weather are totally different. The nice thing about Hurricanes despite their devastation is we have some time for emergency actions to be taken because we'd have some kind of a heads up in advance. Nuclear plants are in a similar situation with their advanced monitoring and control systems, so if an issue occurs there are mitigation measures that can be used to keep things under control. Switch from this to tornadoes and it's a different story. They are super unpredictable and can touch down without notice. You're more likely to be affected by them than by a nuclear plant accident. Here in Dixie Alley, we'd have a higher chance of getting hit with a tornado than having a plant, let's say plant Farley since it's to the closest to me, undergo a nuclear emergency. I've personally experienced being in a tornado three times in my life and aided my mom when the March 3, 2019 tornado steamrolled the area. To my knowledge, none of the plants in the Deep South have had any severe incidents.

With all of that said I'm actually not worried about them shutting off the system. I mainly want the sirens to go to areas where they would serve a better purpose. This system has all of the bells and whistles. The sirens are solar-powered, so if another city or county wanted them they have the added bonus of sticking the sirens in the ground and not having to worry about wiring them to the grid, although that does mean they'll have batteries to replace every few years. I'm contemplating calling a few of the EMAs down here to see if they might be interested in them. Given how far they are from my area I don't know how feasible it would be in the long run, but after that 2019 tornado they might take some kind of interest in them if they can get the funding.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2021 4:53 am 
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I get it The NRC exists for a reason, and I live in a state with Davis Besse, The powerplant that holds the record for largest fine ever imposed by the NRC, and whose owners (First energy) have had recurring involvement with the justice department- Twice, once in 2020 for Public corruption charges surrounding house bill six and once before in 2006 when former employees stepped foreward with evidence of the plant's true condition, where borated water was corroding the reactor.

I'm not going to turn this thread into an argument about nuclear energy, but I will say that there is a reason why the NRC recommends multiple forms of warning (Including sirens!).

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2021 4:21 pm 
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Ohio_Man wrote: *
I get it The NRC exists for a reason, and I live in a state with Davis Besse, The powerplant that holds the record for largest fine ever imposed by the NRC, and whose owners (First energy) have had recurring involvement with the justice department- Twice, once in 2020 for Public corruption charges surrounding house bill six and once before in 2006 when former employees stepped foreward with evidence of the plant's true condition, where borated water was corroding the reactor.

I'm not going to turn this thread into an argument about nuclear energy, but I will say that there is a reason why the NRC recommends multiple forms of warning (Including sirens!).
To be clear. I don't want to seem like I am arguing the need of sirens. And yes, I too am in Ohio and would have possibly been effected if Bessie had actually opened up significantly. I am far enough away that I would have only been displaced, but that's still being effected directly. As far as the other deal with First Energy. That's a discussion that can ONLY violate the "No political discussions" rule and therefore I will also not comment specifically.

The point I was trying to make is sirens in certain places are a good thing. The key part is they are an OUTDOOR warning system. That's the thing people forget. And then when they aren't loud enough to suit them they complain. A well designed system does have a positive effect. But sirens are not cheap. Folks here see postings for old used equipment that is typically being sold by private sellers. A single new siren, at minimum will cost over 15000 by the time it's installed. And that's money that is not going into road repair, fuel for plow trucks and all the rest for a rural township. So they spend it on other things. And many counties will not build out systems for the same reason. The number of people that are going to benefit from it is too low for the expenditure


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:21 am 
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Wow! That’s very unfortunate! What sirens were consisted in their system?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:02 pm 
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SirensOfAustralia wrote: *
Wow! That’s very unfortunate! What sirens were consisted in their system?
I think Modulators and 2001s.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:11 pm 
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SirensOfAustralia wrote: *
What sirens were consisted in their system?
Modulator 2008s, 2001-SRNBs, and 2001-130s.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:13 pm 
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TrainsAndSirens1 wrote: *
SirensOfAustralia wrote: *
What sirens were consisted in their system?
Modulator 2008s, 2001-SRNBs, and 2001-130s.
Thats an interesting system especially the Mod 2008s, what will they do with them?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:34 pm 
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SirensOfAustralia wrote: *
TrainsAndSirens1 wrote: *
SirensOfAustralia wrote: *
What sirens were consisted in their system?
Modulator 2008s, 2001-SRNBs, and 2001-130s.
Thats an interesting system especially the Mod 2008s, what will they do with them?
I have no idea yet. I will find out when the sirens get decommissioned.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 2:46 am 
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SouthCarolinaSirens received this mail today from the VC Summer Nuclear Station (Dominion Energy). Here's the photo.

[ img ]

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