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Oldiesmann
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Thu Apr 22, 2010 3:26 pm

acoustics101 wrote:http://tinyurl.com/25rrxjg
I just found this on cincinnati.com this morning. Our voices are definitely being heard.
The best news is that this article appeared in the Cincinnati Enquirer this morning (for those who get the paper and didn't see it, it's on the front page of the Local Life section). It'll be interesting to see how this latest bid ends up.

The annoying thing is that the article states that Federal's bid "would likely have been the lowest", which isn't the case at all.
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Administrative memo

Thu Apr 22, 2010 4:08 pm

Here is the link to the actual Hamilton County report from Administrative
Services:

http://www.centralmediaserver.com/WCPO/ ... am_doc.pdf

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Jpressman8
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Thu Apr 22, 2010 4:28 pm

I read the article in the paper this morning. I think an editorial needs to be sent in about ASC being the lowest 3 times in a row. The way they worded it made Federal sound like the best choice. Kind of misleading. On the other hand it did'nt make Lusby look very good at all. Also the Enquirer took a statement from me and did not even mention me as a concerned citizen. I'm a little disappointed ,but at least we have their attention.
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MattDean1003
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Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:11 pm

Wow, I never saw it going this far. Great work guys...I see no reason for ASC not to get the bid. I'd rather have a loud as hell lower pitched siren (T121 or T128) than a higher pitched siren screaming at me any day of the week. I, too, have questioned the raise in decibals on the new 2001. I've never personally heard a 2001, but I can attest that while in Winder, GA a few years ago during a tornado warning, I was surrounded by a Model 2, 2 or 3 2001's, and could really only hear the 2001's lightly when they rotated towards me. They were all within a mile, one of them about a half a mile away. The Model 2 was about a half a mile away but inaudible. The Eclipse 8H they have installed seems to fair no better. It was decently loud at about a quarter of a mile, at best, surrounded by buildings but higher than them all. Now, the Whelen Vortex that is over a mile from my old house in Nicholson was very, very audible when it sounded. I could hear it indoors in wail. I heard it, albeit barely, over a washing machine and dryer, and my tv going. That's when I stepped out onto the front porch to see what was going on and was met with a lime green and purple-ish sky...

I say go with the ASC's. 121 @ 100ft constant is enough to warn anyone and I agree with going with a couple more of them for the hilly landscape. I prefer omni sirens as it is...I agree with the matter at hand that only 25% is warned at a time technically with a rotating siren using the beam of sound

I would like to see how the outcome of this. I'm glad our voices were heard. Our voices have been heard before with me, once before. I was helping Jack Hierholzer, a gentleman who used to work with the Bogart City Council, on Oconee County, GA installing some sirens. I was there with siren recordings in hand. A rep from SafetyComm was there and when he said that the sirens can produce all signals, our EMA director QUICKLY jumped in and shut him down stating we only need one, for tornadoes. What about train derailment or attack? No, stated again, only tornadoes. At this time, or city council was fubared. Look up the word if you don't know what it means... When the mayor of Bogart was in favor of something, there were 2 guys on the team who opposed it. When she was opposing something, those same 2 guys would always coincidentally be in favor.

As far as I know now, the city council has stiffened a bit and grown a little more mature per se, but at any rate, we voted, and 90 percent of the people there were in favor of, not only a siren installed at Bogart City Hall, but a full system of small sirens in Oconee County. At the next months City Council meeting, 2 people from Statham, the neighboring town were there, and they disclosed that Statham has not 1, but 2 sirens, that "hardly ever get used and just stand there." What about when they do get used? They're loud and annoying ,was the response, and a waste of money. All they could talk about was how stupid of a decision it would be to install sirens as little as they would get used. Correct-Oconee County has very little tornadoes along with Barrow and Gwinett Counties, who both have sirens.

The next meeting adjourned with bids going out to ASC, Whelen, Sentry Siren thanks to me, and FSC. The next meeting adjourned with full opposition of sirens with the budget going to improve the city park's entrance and some of the city streets, which were completely driveable and in very good overall shape. Thanks for shorting us. 250 phone calls were made and recorded on paper at the meeting before and every household that answered was in favor of tornado sirens. Many were shocked that we had NO sirens at all, except for a Model A on one of the firehouses in High Shoals.

So, I've been in a similar situation. Not really too similar though, but it was getting them to understand sirens were necessary. EVERY person at those meetings, albeit a handfull, were in favor. The ones not in favor were the ones who usually went against anything, and the 2 people from Statham to complain about how they never get used.

Sorry if I swayed off topic but it made me thing that maybe we can make a difference there too. We need sirens here. There have been several times a tornado warning was sent out in the middle of the night and nobody knew it. I hope to see ASC get the bid.
James M. Dean

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Re: Number of sirens

Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:14 pm

Jpressman8 wrote:
SIRENMAN wrote:The bid is actually for 30 sirens to be delivered in two weeks and 140 to be delivered by August. So 170 sirens to be delivered and no money left over for installation. Here is where the "funny business" part of the bid, ASC and Federal have 6 to 8 week delivery on sirens. I bet a little birdy told Federal to have 30 sirens ready to be delivered in two weeks and they would meet the bid requirements.
I'll have to read it again. I think I missed something.
1.1 Equipment

1.1.1 New Equipment
EMA is seeking to purchase the following new outdoor warning system sirens and related equipment
which EMA will incorporate into its existing outdoor warning siren system (the ?New Equipment?):

Quantity Description
140 Electro-mechanical Rotational Sirens assembled and completely functional
with the following options:
a) Siren Heads
b) Remote Terminal Units (?RTU?)
c) AC/DC operation
d) Batteries
e) Battery heaters
f) NEMA 4-approved cabinets
g) Radios to support current 800 MHz analog system
h) Siren Head Rotational Sensors
i) Current Sensors
j) Intrusion Sensors
k) Low Battery Sensors
l) Power Failure Sensors
m) 800 MHz antenna with 3db gain
n) Adjustable Mounting Brackets
3 Central Controllers, including Software
3 Tone Alert Radio w/EAS Encoder
2 Electronic Voice Sirens including the following options:
a) Speaker Assembly
b) Remote Terminal Unit (RTU)
c) DC operation with AC charging
d) Batteries
e) Battery heaters
f) NEMA 4-approved cabinets
g) Radios to support current 800 MHz analog system
h) Amplifier current sensors
i) Intrusion sensors
j) Low Battery Sensor
k) Power Failure Sensor

The use of the term ?Equipment? throughout this ITB refers collectively to the New Equipment and Upgrade Equipment.

l) 800 MHz antenna with 3 db gain
m) Adjustable Mounting Brackets

1.1.2 Upgrade Equipment
In addition to the purchase of New Equipment, EMA is seeking to upgrade 64 existing EMA sirens
to AC/DC operation with battery back-up. Thirty-two (32) of the sirens are manufactured by Federal
Signal Corporation and thirty-two (32) of the sirens are manufactured by American Signal
Corporation. Accordingly, EMA is seeking to purchase the following siren-related equipment
pursuant to this ITB in order to upgrade its existing outdoor warning siren system (the ?Upgrade
Equipment?):

Quantity Description
64 Upgrades to existing EMA Remote Terminal Units (RTU) including:
a) New NEMA Cabinets
b) Siren Head Rotational sensors
c) Current Sensors
d) Intrusion Sensors
e) Low Battery Sensors
f) Power Failure Sensors
g) Batteries
h) Battery Heaters

1.2 Delivery
Bidder must deliver and unload all Equipment at the EMA warehouse, located at 1444 Spring Lawn,
Cincinnati, Ohio 45223 according to the following delivery schedule. Time is of the essence.

1.2.1 The following New Equipment shall be delivered by Bidder no later than May 24, 2010:
Quantity Description
30 Electro-mechanical Rotational Sirens assembled and completely
functional with all specified options
3 Central Controllers, including Software
3 Tone Alert Radio w/EAS Decoder

1.2.2 The following New Equipment and Upgrade Equipment shall be delivered by Bidder no
later than August 15, 2010:
Quantity Description
110 Electro-mechanical Rotational Sirens assembled and completely
functional with all specified options
2 Electronic Voice Sirens including all specified options
64 Upgrades to existing EMA Remote Terminal Units including all
specified options
What's quoted above is what I saw. Where in the bid does it say that there need to be 30 sirens installed in 2 weeks?
Resident of a county with big a mixture of sirens, but in the process of being replaced. :(

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Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:58 pm

Andy it is section 1.2 under delivery. Delivered not installed by May 24th you have to allow at least a week for transport. They are planning to store them until they have them put up. I am betting a mole told FS to have 30 sirens ready 1 or 2 months ago. Bid submission deadline is Apr 29th minus one week that would be roughly 2 to 2 1/2 weeks to get 30 sirens produced. That is a tight schedule.

1.2 Delivery
Bidder must deliver and unload all Equipment at the EMA warehouse, located at 1444 Spring Lawn,
Cincinnati, Ohio 45223 according to the following delivery schedule. Time is of the essence.
1.2.1 The following New Equipment shall be delivered by Bidder no later than May 24, 2010:
Quantity Description
30 Electro-mechanical Rotational Sirens assembled and completely
functional with all specified options
3 Central Controllers, including Software
3 Tone Alert Radio w/EAS Decoder
1.2.2 The following New Equipment and Upgrade Equipment shall be delivered by Bidder no
later than August 15, 2010:
Quantity Description
110 Electro-mechanical Rotational Sirens assembled and completely
functional with all specified options
2 Electronic Voice Sirens including all specified options
64 Upgrades to existing EMA Remote Terminal Units including all
Last edited by Jpressman8 on Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:03 pm

I saw that, and 110 more sirens due by August 15, which totals 140. There doesn't seem to be anything about where there's going to be another 30 sirens totaling 170.
Resident of a county with big a mixture of sirens, but in the process of being replaced. :(

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Jpressman8
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Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:24 pm

carexpertandy wrote:I saw that, and 110 more sirens due by August 15, which totals 140. There doesn't seem to be anything about where there's going to be another 30 sirens totaling 170.
Yes Andy it's a typo error. 140 new sirens + the 32 FS 2001s and the 32 T-128s for a grand total of 204 still not enough. That is the count existing sirens in the county and does not include the newly developed areas lacking sirens. They should keep some of the older operating sirens for now and start with the areas that have no coverage. I can't believe EMA the way they are dealing with this. Looks like they don't have a clue. The first 30 are to be delivered right away. Sirenman was referring to the first 30 sirens.
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Jpressman8
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Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:45 pm

I just opened this e-mail. It is a response from Kathy Binns Chief of staff Hamilton County Commissioner Todd Portune

Thank you, Jason,

I will review the attached documents and Todd will do the same.

Thanks for your input. We appreciate your concern.

Best,

Kathy

Kathy Binns
Chief of Staff
Hamilton County Commissioner Todd Portune
138 E. Court Street, Room 603
Cincinnati, Ohio 45202
Telephone (513) 946-4402
FAX (513) 946-4446
[email protected]
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Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:21 am

Jpressman8 wrote:The way they worded it made Federal sound like the best choice. Kind of misleading.
Oldiesmann wrote:The annoying thing is that the article states that Federal's bid "would likely have been the lowest", which isn't the case at all.
Unfortunately, that's the media for ya. At least the cat is out of the bag now. No doubt Federal and indeed the EMA will be fuming. :D

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