Most people care, except Mexicans. Others are sometimes unsure whathey shouldo. Women especially are bad at reacting and slowing and stopping.q2bman wrote:robert gift wrote:Loud, your ladder truck lightsound good to me. Wigwags are VERY effective, most unexpecting eyes catch them first before anything else.
Red or blue lights in the back are a waste. They should be yellow, which appear much brighter and seen earlier from behind.
You want emergency colors in the front to gethrough intersections and yellow in the back to protecthe parked vehicle.
Tyler, I have a Whelen something, forgot what.
It produces a lower range of siren tone (which I do not like)
but which isupposedly better! Low sounds travel farther than high.
Also, low frequenciesupposedly penetrate vehicles better than high.
Wish I knew more abouthis. Maybe I need to change but I don't like the sound. They are all square waves except the eQ.
Fire departments must stop being envious and wasting taxpayers money.
If members of the department want to purchase a second siren witheir own money, fine. But you only need one sound. Two does not get you
noticed any earlier than one.
(But I recall an interesting effect on the ears when the electronic was on WAIL and the Q was running. [Our's must have been the first ambulance in Denver to have BOTH. As their tones crossed or coincided, my ears "cracked" as though going up in elevation!)Good of you to be direct and good points, Q.q2bman wrote:I don't agree at all with anything you are saying! A siren needs to be sounded at all times when responding to an emergency. What about the guy that looks left then right and didn't see your sequential lightbar cause it was inbetween flashes. The guy pulls out in front of you. You going to have time to activate the siren before he get killed?
If he had a green signal, we start the siren before getting to the intersection --unless we can clearly see no one is present or approaching the intersection. (I have quietly snuck through many intersections that way.)
Police witheir red and blue get hit from behind. Does not matter who is there, yellow better displays that something is there so DON'T HIT ME!q2bman wrote: Also, just yellow in the back may be brighter but red and blue allow motorists to know what they are driving up on. If they see yellow they may think a construction crew is up ahead. Even the construction people here in Texas use red and blue. Makes the motorists think the police are ahead and they slow down.
It should be illegal for construction or anyone else to display red and blue and portray themselves as law enforcement!
We get too dependent upon the siren and assume drivers hear it - when they don't.q2bman wrote: The q siren is only on for a few seconds and in total, what a five min response time. People can't be bothere for five mins to make the road safer. Give me a break. Be loud and save lives!
Better to drive thinking that they don't hear it.
And yes, it bothers me when I am home after a 24-hour shift, needing sleep, when a siren is being needlessly sounded and awakens me.
q2bman wrote: Also, the more lights the better. Some portions of your vehicle may be blocked by trees, cars, buildings, etc. More light will be seen. Synced lights were proven ineffective in the eighties! That's why they are not made anylonger. LED lighting is somethime synced as you mentioned but they have strobe type flash patterns to get attention.
The more lights the better IF COORDINATED!
Of all the fancy patterns,(which I find fun and interesting) the all on/all off is the most effective at catching the unexpecting eye.
A myriad of lights just blend together ando not create the contrasting "snap" which better draws the unexpecting eye.
Remember, when you and I are looking for it, the patterns are more interesting. But when not looking for it, they are LESS effective.
q2bman wrote: And wig-wags are only effective at moving people to the right. They do almost nothing for intersection warning.
Yes, do not shine towards the sides so do little for cross-traffic.
But for on-coming and same direction vehicles they are most often noticed BEFORE the overhead lights!
In mid trip, we had a relay burn out, turning off the lightbar.
(I wired the indicator light from the relay output, so, though the switch was on, the indicator went dark when the relay failed.)
Wig-wags still cleared traffic. They are bigger and brighter than anythig else. You would have approved - Thatime I kept WAIL constantly on!
Why switch to a less percieved sound?q2bman wrote: The dual siren tones used by our ambulance service are very attention getting. One stays on wail for distant warning and one on yelp for up close warning.
WAIL is better, no matter far or near. Some peoples' brains just do not
perceive YELP or other quicky-changing sounds as well as WAIL. As though the brain needs a little time to "read" the frequency, but it has already changed by the time we "grasp" it.
Sorry, I should have been more clear. That was the effect on OUR ears in the ambulance because we were so close to the sound sources.q2bman wrote: The cracking noise you refered too is produced as well and moves traffic.
(It was not loud at all in the cab, but we still felt the effect!)
We should turn OFF EVERYTHING but 4-way flashers and yellow lights when parked. Then less drivers will mistake a stopped EV trying to gethrough an intersection as PARKED. Also saves wear and tear on emergency lights, (they get dimmer the more used) and saves fuel.q2bman wrote: It has been my experience that fast multi pattern strobe lights move traffic. I would always switch to a slow alternateing patter when stationary.
Morelectrical demand means morengine load means more fuel.
(Am I cheap or what?!) It adds up!
q2bman wrote: People observing you from a distance can judge you location better with a slower pattern. People driving down the road comming in contact with an emergency vehicle need quick bright patterns to grab attention. And most need a slap in the face for not knowing what to do or just not careing.
HA! That was a good one! I agree. But not all people from Mexico are bad drivers. All lazy people that won't take the time to be considerate motorists are bad drivers. That included many countries!robert gift wrote:q2bman wrote:robert gift wrote:Loud, your ladder truck lightsound good to me. Wigwags are VERY effective, most unexpecting eyes catch them first before anything else.
Red or blue lights in the back are a waste. They should be yellow, which appear much brighter and seen earlier from behind.
You want emergency colors in the front to gethrough intersections and yellow in the back to protecthe parked vehicle.
Tyler, I have a Whelen something, forgot what.
It produces a lower range of siren tone (which I do not like)
but which isupposedly better! Low sounds travel farther than high.
Also, low frequenciesupposedly penetrate vehicles better than high.
Wish I knew more abouthis. Maybe I need to change but I don't like the sound. They are all square waves except the eQ.
Fire departments must stop being envious and wasting taxpayers money.
If members of the department want to purchase a second siren witheir own money, fine. But you only need one sound. Two does not get you
noticed any earlier than one.
(But I recall an interesting effect on the ears when the electronic was on WAIL and the Q was running. [Our's must have been the first ambulance in Denver to have BOTH. As their tones crossed or coincided, my ears "cracked" as though going up in elevation!)Good of you to be direct and good points, Q.q2bman wrote:I don't agree at all with anything you are saying! A siren needs to be sounded at all times when responding to an emergency. What about the guy that looks left then right and didn't see your sequential lightbar cause it was inbetween flashes. The guy pulls out in front of you. You going to have time to activate the siren before he get killed?
If he had a green signal, we start the siren before getting to the intersection --unless we can clearly see no one is present or approaching the intersection. (I have quietly snuck through many intersections that way.)
Well, that would be fine as long as you are prepared to stop. If some idiot hits you it his fault for running a red light!
Police witheir red and blue get hit from behind. Does not matter who is there, yellow better displays that something is there so DON"T HIT ME! It should be illegal for construction or anyone else to use red and blue and portray themselves as law enforcement!q2bman wrote: Also, just yellow in the back may be brighter but red and blue allow motorists to know what they are driving up on. If they see yellow they may think a construction crew is up ahead. Even the construction people here in Texas use red and blue. Makes the motorists think the police are ahead and they slow down.
The red and blue are not to keep people from hitting them but to identify the situation. The "construction" vehicles i spoke of are actually Department of Transportation personell and they are not trying to be police. Texas has studied this ans drivers slow down when they aee red and blue for fear of a citation. Works. Keeps people safe.
We get too dependent upon the siren.q2bman wrote: The q siren is only on for a few seconds and in total, what a five min response time. People can't be bothere for five mins to make the road safer. Give me a break. Be loud and save lives!
We tooften assume drivers hear it - when they don't.
Better to drive with attitude that they don't hear it.
And yes, it bothers me when I am home after a 24-hour shift, needing sleep, when a siren is being needlessly sounded and awakens me.
EV, as you put it, should not be dependant on anything but brakes to keep people safe at intersections. But any equipment that helps warn motorists of on comming emergency vehicles that is installed on emergency vehicle should be used. Warn the public. Sound attracts the eyes and the eys see the lights. I don't agree with anyone who depends on the warning equipment. It's only their to help.
q2bman wrote: Also, the more lights the better. Some portions of your vehicle may be blocked by trees, cars, buildings, etc. More light will be seen. Synced lights were proven ineffective in the eighties! That's why they are not made anylonger. LED lighting is somethime synced as you mentioned but they have strobe type flash patterns to get attention.
But of all the fancy patterns,(which I find fun and interesting) the all on/all off is the most effective at catching the unexpecting eye.
A myraid of lights just blend together ando not create the contrasting "snap" which better draws the unexpecting eye.
Remember, when you and I are looking for it, the patterns are more interesting. But when not, they are LESS effective.
Not true. Studdies have shown randome flashes of light attract better than simple on and off. CCalled the "moth" effect. Cause of a mothes attraction to a flickering flame. That's why strobes flash instead of blink on and off. Simple "chaseing" flash patterns are less effective than ramdom flashes. Mixed signals of fast rotators and slow rotators are better. Non syncronized stobes/leds are more effective than the simple alternateing pattern.
q2bman wrote: And wig-wags are only effective at moving people to the right. They do almost nothing for intersection warning.
They are most often noticed BEFORE the overhead lights!
We had a relay burn out in mid trip, turning off the lightbar.
(I wired the indicator light from the relay output, so, though the switch was on, the indicator went out when the relay failed.)
Wig-wags still cleared traffic. They are bigger and brighter than anythig else. Yes, do not shine towards the sides so do little for cross-traffic.
That time I kept WAIL constantly on .
Wig wags are great. I love them. Try and find a more noticeable warning light. But, its only noticable to on comming traffic or traffic you are following. They have to have time to notice them.They do not "grab" you attention but if you happen to see them they are noticeable. Does that make any sense. I can't find the words!
Why switch to a less percieved sound?
WAIL is better, no matter far or near. Some peoples' brains just do not
perceive YELP or other quicky changing sounds as well as WAIL. As though the brain needs a little time to "read" the frequency, but it has already changed by the time we "grasp" it.
Dissagree. Wail is great for distance warning while yelp is beter for close warning. The same frequency range. And you don't need time to notice a scary sound. Wail might be better in your experience because it more than likely has beter penetration through vehicle insilation.
Sorry, I should have been more clear. That was the effect on OUR ears in the ambulance because we were so close to the sound sources.
(It was not loud at all in the cab, but we still felt the effect!)
I know exactly what you're talking about. I love that sound!
We should turn OFF everything but 4-way flashers and yellow lights when parked. Then less drivers will mistake a stopped EV trying to gethrough an intersection as PARKED. Also saves wear and tear on emergency lights, (they get dimmer the more used) and saves fuel.
(Am I cheap or what?!)
You are cheap! Bad plan. Imagine the rear end collisions. If idiots allread hit EVs with all the lights on.
Most people care, except Mexicans. Others are sometime unsure whathey shouldo. Women especially are bad at reacting and slowing and stopping.
I should have reported that Wyoming woman who had 5 seconds to see the EV in the middle of the street waiting at the edge of her lane and kept on going.
Thought she was a TEXAN so forgave her.
Texas pickup truck license plates read "truck" so they knowhat it is.
Aggies place their College Diplomas in the rear window to gain Handicapped Parking!!
They are probably city entities and have special city coverage and immunity. We don't have that.loudmouth wrote: then why do most all fire trucks have the arrows....
loudmouth wrote: and half of the time the law inforcement cant even directs traffic they just stand there and point or just stand there .. mostly they just sit in the cruser while the every one else works....
Yes, buthey seek anyonelse to blame or SHARE blame.loudmouth wrote: or its the DPW sets up a porta arrow sign. and if they get in an accdent thats there own dam fault they were paying attion.
Yes, there are some terribly incompetent drivers who lack sufficient skills to be on the road. Then you have others who get confused - I have seen some confusing situations, but WHY DIDN'T YOU SLOWAY DOWNloudmouth wrote: no mater what the light there is all ways some one whos gona get attracted to the light and posibly cause a death no mater it be a firemen or woman and emt, police officer, tow truck drive, dpw worker, plow truck driver they all have that problem no mater how many light or sirens or horns there are drivers who dont care will never care or just drivers who should not drive who go out and kill some one while driving.
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