EMERGENCY VEHICLE SIRENS, lights, useage, etc.

[Robert Gift]

Once again Robert. I'm inclined to disagree.

If you have emergency lights on your vehicle and were not using them to warn the public but instead only activated you hazard lights, I would sue for everything you had.

The problem with lightbar lights is thathe white lights blind and confuse people, especially older drivers whose eyes don't recover as well from bright light.
Also, with many lights flashing all over the place, drivers become confused and collide with things and people.

We turn off our 360's and flickering lights and use just flashing yellow lights. They appear brighter from a distance, are not overpowering close-up, and do not cause confusion, disorientation and scene clutter.
Also, they are not flickering in our eyes as we try to evaluate patients.
They are shining down the highway towards the hazard - the vehicles coming at us.

Motorists need to be warnd of hazards. Four way flashers are for flat tires not traffic accidents. If you have warning lights use them. Why do you give such advice? Why deactivate anything at an accident scene? Do you see anyone elese turning off lights? How would it look to have an emergency on a hwy with all parties involved sitting with no flashing lights? Responding to the scene lights are to warn the public of an approaching emergency vehicle. While on the scene the lights are to warn of the scene itself.

What would you think if you were driving down the hwy at 75 mph and you observed a flash every second or so of amber? I would think tow truck, construction maybe. I would not think triple fatality accident with several hundred emergency workers on the hwy.

I damn sure wouldn't think that if I saw flashing hazzard lights!

What does it matter if contruction equipment, tow trucks, or
EVs? We must slow and are not allowed to hit any of them.

COME ON!

Also, I was referring to privately owned volunteer ambulance and fire fighters' vehicles.
We must be very careful that our atypical lights are not used against us in a lawsuit over someone's mishap.
If a driver goes left as directed by a volunteer's arrow stick, and has a mishap, he will claim, "He directed me there!" and the volunteer will be charged with some responsibility for the accident. The driver may not wish to charge the volunteer, but his lawyer will.

4-way flashers are already approved by DOT. We cannot be held liable for unusual lights causing problems when we use lights which came with the vehicle. If the driver has a problem with proven and approved vehicle lights, then the problem is entirely his.

[Robert Gift]

Star SS700 siren are by far the best vehicular sirens you can buy. They are derivatives of SVP's, but by far better. Nothing beats it. You have Wail, Yelp, Phaser, Alert, Hi-lo, and air horn tones that are all very commanding. Everything on this siren is great, beats any FS or Whelen siren by far, and beleive me, I've played with MANY electronic sirens over the years. As far as this discussion on hazard lights, my two cents is no type of warning light should be placed in the brake lights or the turn signal lamps. Lol, now that i'm not longer in the fire dept since I moved, all I have is some cones and an orange beacon (the crappy "mail lady" light with an 1157 bulb). Works for me.

Agreed.
Anything other than what was supplied with the vehicle invites risk.

Alteration of SAE/DOT is probably illegal and may invite risk of lawsuit.

Imagine parking on scene with 4-way flashers on and a bulb burns out, looking like a turn signal, and a guy veers over thinking you are
changing lanes and hits someone.
This is why I park way off scene. If something fails, I won't be part of a problem.

[q2bman]

I just have a problem with that theory. If you have the warning equipment and do not use it then that would be your lawsuit. If your vehicle, as a first responder or whatever, is in the roadway and you have hazard lights on to warn motorists but have deactivated emergency lighting, I would think you would be hamered in court. I would think it more likely to have a motorist understate the situation and cause an accident if all you displayed is 4 ways. I picture Jhony motorist driving down the road at a million miles an hour seeing a vehicle on the shoulder with 4 ways on. Johny motorist drivs on up and only at the last min. sees its an accident in his lane. Slams on the brakes then get rear ended by a semi that thought the accident was a woman changeing a flat tire. On the other side of the coin, you have Johny motorist that sees red, blue and yellow flashes from up ahead. He's going to know somethings up that requires the presence of an emergency vehicle.

And i agree with you, ev's get hit too. However, parked cars on the hwy shoulder are struck far more than ev's with activated emergency lighting. People hit bridges for crying out loud!

[Robert Gift]

But you ARE using the 4-ways and amber lightbar lights in the rear which are very bright.

Yellow flashers appear much brighter than the emegency lights. Being "on" for 1 second each, as compared to the brief intense flicker of 360s, the yellow flashers were much more noticeable from a distance.

Another example is vehicles with strobes in the headlights.
The strobes are overpowered and washed out by the longer-illuminated headlight bulb wigwags.

I wish I knewhich lightbars have the best rear amber lights.

We have an ambulance with little front facing 360s which are worthless.
The RED LED lights on each end are much more noticeable than all the 360s between them.
I'll try to find the manufacturer so everyone can avoid them.
Maybe those red lights would be much moreffective if coordinated to flash together, buthey are random and worthless little flickers.

Yah, we had a case of "a bridge abutment hitting a car" and also
"a tree hit a car" last week.

[Jim_Ferer]

There are some odd notions of how one can be liable going around here.

There's no magical formula for being liable, and no formula for avoiding liability. You're liable for anything a plaintiff counsel can persuade a jury makes you liable. If there are regulations in effect that a responder didn't comply with, and the jury decides that noncompliance is a causal factor in the accident, the liability will be found.

Only using four-way flashers is no protection against liability. Avoiding an accident is a protection. The ideas behind effective warning are changing. Amber to the rear is becoming more and more popular. My work car has an amber LED arrow stick to the rear and amber strobes on the corners and it works very well. More lights would be a distraction. Overlighting can be as bad as underlighting.

[Robert Gift]

Well said! - not having the accident is best.

That is why I park my vehicle way off the road, or in a parking space if possible. Park legally whenever possible.

In case you did not read previous posts, I would NEVER use the arrows in an arrow stick.
If you PROPERLY direct someone left, and they have a mishap, they will claim, "He directed me here and caused me to have this mishap."
Then they will try to sue you for partial blame.

You willikely win your case, but will have lost time, money and incurred brain damage worrying abouthe whole matter.

Some idiot driver may even interpret your left arrow as meaning YOU are going left and the dolt goes right - exactly where you do NOT want him to go.

Are police getting away from using arrow sticks?

[Jim_Ferer]

Police are using arrow sticks all the time. I'm in construction, so if I'm using an arrow it's pointing into a diversion that has been set up already.

You're generally okay if you use an arrow to send people into a lane that normally goes the way they're supposed to go in the first place, for example: I'm in the right eastbound lane of a four lane road with two eastbound lanes. I can use my arrow to send people into the *other* eastbound lane. If I need to send people into one of the westbound lanes, I have to set up a traffic switch. Look at the MUTCD for examples.

As EMS, setting up traffic control at accident scenes is usually someone else's job, the cops with help from the fire department or even the DOT.

[I_Love_Sirens_lol]

yeah the police use arrow sticks liek all the time

[Robert Gift]

You send everyone properly into the correct lane(s).

An incompetent driver runs into someonelse from his botched lane change or merge, and blames you.

That is where this all gets risky.

You wind up going to court for something you CORRECTLY did.

The plaintiff's counsel says you did not do enough for safety, or you
did too much and confused the driver.

Let police and public entities take the risk.

[q2bman]

Speaking as a Police Officer, The vehicle that hit the whatever is a fault. No insurance co. or lawyer in his right mind will try a case involving a traffic arrow on a private citizen's car representing the wrong direction or causing a traffic hazzard at an emergency. The driver, although directed into whatever lane, is responsible for driving at a speed that is safe in the event of any emergency. Only when directed by a Police Officer would the vehicle's driver not be held liable. You are not intitled to your opinion on what action is safe when directed by an officer. Then officer takes priority over traffic lights, signs, and all elese.